Is the geometry of "sending" love, gently drawing in... or implosive?


extending the conversation between Drunvalo and Bob Dratch,


from Dan Winter .. ongoing dialog follows... starting 5/18/98

(inset 1/2001) - Note this article is best read after a basic reading / understanding of HOW the sounds of love in the Heart create the phase pumping in the spine 'bliss' juice (sacro cranial pulse)... please see: IS THIS RECURSION?KEY TO THE HARMONIC GEOMETRY OF BIOLOGICAL OSCILLATORS (transcript of keynote lecture to National Polarity Association talk by DAN WINTER on the Heart Emotion's Mechanism to Induce the Spine Pump - Sacro Cranial Pulse).

also related:

The Implosion Phenomenon: Psychological Import of Phi Harmonic Music Phi Scalar Technology & MonoAtomic Gold..

Gold Powder vs Heart.. Alchemy's Darker Moments

GOLD Powder2:Inert Superconductors vs Self Aware Steerage from Heart


back to: Sacred Geometry, Fractality & Awareness, Coherent Emotion & The Earth Grid, Dan Winter, Home Page: Contents Directory

important: (includes Bobs drawings and both Bob & Dru initial letters)


 Can or Should we Really SEND LOVE?


first Bob Dratch wrote me: (regarding whether all that Global Experiment "Sending Love" might have been related to things coming to a head in India... explosively?)


Yes Dan - that I BELIEVE is the case, although India's action is merely a reflection due to the actions of those that started, and continued to use "beaming" or sending "love" during the "Great Experiment" action performed last month. I have a graphical representation of the "Physics" that occurred on my webpage,

(note to readers here, -fr dan - this is the critical link to get the background of both Bob Dratch's and Drunvalo's contrasting views.. on Bob site:)

All the the classical meditators KNOW that to prevent Karma, one does not SEND anything from oneself to affect a change, because the wave that comes in contact with "reality" becomes phase inverted, the "opposite effect" from the intended is received, and of course, the receipient RETALIATES.

This is so obvious by now inventory review of all the negative actions occurring across the planet, the greatest damage occurring in the areas that have the most "love" expressed through meditation.


And (Drunvalo seems affected) Love himself is affected! So, I think the planet is in serious trouble, Dan.

These people should have known better, that the way to affect change is to be the "love" inside, and be that so strongly that the spiritual flow comes into the beingness of the meditator, and continues to flow inwards and inwards. If it is radiated out from ANYTHING it immediately gets phase inverted, violates spiritual law and dharma insues, making a nasty karma scar.

For instance, I believe Mr. Drunvalo's meditation is fine until folks "beam the energy" out of their bodies from the heart center. I believe that is where the problem occurs - I strongly feel innocents are "blasted" with that beaming and the spashback according to energy physics (the inversion action) is negative. Link a planet up this way, or any other way where the resultant action is to create an effect in others by having others who are aware and those who are NOT AWARE of what is going on receive the beaming action, is to open us globally up for a fall. AND we are seeing that globally.

Dan, I don't know if this negative can be stopped, I am very disappointed that these people who purport to us that they have a RIGHT to do this to the planet would do such and claim they do no wrong.

Dan, the effect is not stopping, or diminishing, it is growing, and it is not the LIGHT that is growing, but as you noted the DOR. (Dead Orgone Energy, from the James DeMeo Circular letter on the bad energy wave circulating the planet after India's nuclear messes..) BOB (Dratch)

from susan: I recently sent out an email to another list regarding energy hygiene. One aspect of energy hygiene is sending love, healing energy, whatever, without consent. Not many understand the karmic ramifications that can have to oneself and the planet.
I referred people to read Bob Dratch's article, a friend of Dan Winter's and a fellow scientist.
 I wrote an email to Bob to ask permission to place his article into the files of Solar Heart. Here is his response to me.
I thought you might enjoy reading it.
Hia Susan - thanks for your email and question.  (BTW, where's Dan these day's - haven't seen him around in a while.)
On the dangers of "Beaming" anything (i.e. emoting energy from one's body, or etherical evoking of any emission source of energy), there is ALWAYS a flashback. IT doesn't matter if it is apparently a PRAYER group either, if people SEND their thoughts/energy/whatever OUT.  It makes no difference to the laws of Physics (God's Law's btw), if the flavor on the beamout (SENDING) is the wishes of LOVE/HATE/REGRET/HAPPY.  If the person uses their OWN energy, they eventually burn out unless they are psychic vampires, living off the energy of others... If a person causes OTHERS to send their energy out, just WHO are "they" working for, to get others to be self-consumed....  sorta makes ya wonder, what evoked this newage love-in vibe.  Like who are the "who's" behind such, and if they are innocent, how did THEY get duped, who duped them.  It sure would be great if there was a revival of healing thru teaching BEING-ness not BEAMing-ness.  As I understand it, when one INFLOWS the ultimate SOURCE-LIGHT (and doesn't act like a vampire sucking off other's local light), then one evokes a torrent of inflow.  If one has inflowed SOURCE-LIGHT then with the ultimate internal "LOVE", then one has truly opened the doorway for others to FREELY do the same, where they are not wacked/coerced/forced or manipulated.  FREE-WILL AND LOVE - what a concept!
Sure, quote the article, and archive it in case the website is overloaded.  The above short note is just another re-iteration, feel free to use it if it can help.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --SolarHeartCommunity-

Bob's further comments follow mine below,

inviting Drunvalo's comments... and yours..


thanking bob dratch AND drunvalo for bringing something to focus...

I think helping us focus on practical "spiritual hygiene" needs to be high in our fire breath... door openings..

so.. I was trying to see if all my work on phi and the centering force of heart harmonics making love, in a Merkabbah nest of pressures, (see Merkabbah: Next Step?-Sacred Geometry of Transcendance) was usefully labeled implosive.. and if that was a geometry to understand "sending love".. These were some pieces of the puzzle I wanted to connect:

implosion making nausea, even constipation..

implosion in pineal making soul

implosion in dna braid enabling time travel

implosion speeding up the rate at which fantasies matriculate, even bad ones..

implosion feeling vulnerable too soon, unsorted..

implosion, off center tilting tectonics at atlantis

implosion in microwave making rain (60 degree capacitive cloud buster)

implosion in EKF as the harmonics of compassion (../embedability)


we wrote of the hazards of implosion with ray flowers from

"The Implosion Phenomenon: Psychological Import of Phi Harmonic Music Phi Scalar

Technology & MonoAtomic Gold.. Implosion Hazards?"

is it implosion in rf braid which clears air...

is it implosion in the heart and the heart of the sun (below link compare suns heart to heart/and anu 7/5 spin structure)

(& in deca delta time antennae)

../heartsun/HeartofSun.html which lets only hi end ET DNA thru?

is implosion the difference between tetrahedral fire breath incomplete (hex)


tetrahedral fire breath climaxed (pent):

../merkabbah/merkabbah.html steve hanauer and I have begun to call this 32 degree sphinx chin tilt to 4 dimensions (spins superposed nondestructively) of the tetracube into the dodec the sacred geometry of transcendance...

if implosion electrically is related to the feeling of love (identifying with an unpacking wave turning inside out...

../embedability is this something that you can send?

in the Jimmy Twyman controversy Bob Dratch speaks about...

supposing you really thought you loved someone who for some reason just could not let you love them.. (could not let you "send" love) now the old saying is you cannot receive love until you love yourself... now if someone were to geometrically analyze the psychology of who could love themselves, it MIGHT go something like this..

the koan is that "you only fall in love with pure intention",

which might mean that you look for someone whose intent lines you believe to be more shareable than your own, and then you have the privelege to letting them lead you because you believe in their intent...

unconsciously perhaps locating pure intent is correctly connected with the notion that only pure intent lines create memories which are infinitely shareable, distributable, and therefore (very desireably) immortal..

so you need to find pure intent to fall in love with if you want your memories to be harvestable.. storeable.. shareable...

now if you look at this picture from the receiver of this love viewpoint, here you are quaking thinking that this person who says they love you is about to dump their trust in you to imply that you their "lovee" must now be responsible to steer the intentions of their life... unconsciously then in order to trust yourself to LET someone love you, you must sincerely BELIEVE that inside YOU know the spin path to the center of all spins.. in order to be able to guide to the point of shareability, THEIR LIFE>...

you are threatened to know that you know what is pure.. from a geometric viewpoint, where many paths and errands meet IS the spin path to zero point.. IMPLOSION..

SO loving yourself, is to be able to steer recursion inside..guiding the electrical wave around the heart, back inside itself..inside out..the power spectra of which is embedability ..

See the global effort on embeding heartbeats

--now when we first played implosion sounds at the biodome, it seemed like we opened a little wrinkle in time, and in fact some bleeding in the wormhole would result..a kind of rushing in to die, before having sorted memory for whats shareable...

--now I can really feel for Bob Dratch, having I'm sure like many of us Atlantean memories of just these issues, saying you direct this implosion force without context at say India, and sure enough.. pandemonium breaks out upon the scene... the excacerbation of all their fantasies are called forth more quickly, GOOD AND BAD...

implosion IS bringing waves "to a head", not necessarily painless if those waves were not pointed after we zapped them with all that love, their bomb fantasies blow up ahead of schedule...

the physics is like the pine braid path (of pure? intent..) which makes possible phase conjugate mirroring in laser optics from the place where imploding lasers phase annihilate, their spin paths make a pineal pine cone there,from here light waves bounce back.. in time, and back where they came from...literally... returning to true source...

now when Trevor Constable pointed a 60 degree (dodeca) conic orgone capacitor at clouds off the ship, he called it POWER TO PRECIPITATE.. if this is the electrical conic of the heart feeling love, then it would precipitate... fields would turn from vaporous to drop... vapor is a wave unfocused, a drop is molecular waves focused, or literally in a sense imploded...

first response from Bob Dratch Re: loving dialectic sending,18 May 1998 1, fr

BDelphin <>

Hey Dan - thanks, I love that you are willing to help me with this Dru issue... I know each of us love, each other, and we need to move past reactivity.

Implosion - YES, YES YES - that is the only KARMICALLY safe way. It is the only way to "be an example and not violate free will". Implosion will create a flow that is like a running brook, a current of flowing life energy that the watcher can jump in or pass by using free will. Implosion is the white magic way - Bailey quotes this often in determining of one has bumped into a Master or an Aspirant .

<< if implosion electrically is related to the feeling of love (identifying with an unpacking wave turning inside out...) ../embedability

is this something that you can send? >> Sending is done by templating implosion. Since we are in a sea of life - if we pull-in the sea diverts sending the waveforms into the current which then are not our will to change the current. It is our ethical right to choose what we wish to focus on. When we pull-in we induce the action of others to observe what in the stream is different, where the "what" is going and why, and why would someone want to pull something in? The "spirit" sees that something is valuable then, and voluntarily chooses to look to see why other aspects of spirit are "pulling in" something. Again this is totally free will activity. The INSTANT someone SENDS, that induces the phase reversal, the duplication of SENDING from the universe and chaotic events result, mostly negative, there is no stability.

<<here you are quaking thinking that this person who says they love you is about to dump their trust in you to imply that you their "lovee" must now be responsible to steer the intentions of their life...

>> Very good observation - that is the problem, the implied switch of personal values to those of the "SENDER" - how dares the sender implore on the receiver the implied value system! That is the issue I see with the folks that "beam" they assume that it is right to switch the belief system of others wanting to do other things...

<<SO loving yourself, is to be able to steer recursion inside..>> I could just simply say One KNOWS the feeling of being pulled, well, do not go pulling as that would be an invasive action, but focus on the feeling of the flow inwards. Which by the way was the only way I could communicate with Dolphin - the moment that I used any form of beaming or sending of conscious LOVE, they SPLIT faster than a blink in the eye. It confused me for a while, like how could Dolphin not want love? The key was to see that they did want love, but to invade another's space was rape even if the intent was to send love. BUT to pull in the feeling of love would in fact pull in those that are also -pulling in the feeling of love, and those that don't know what love is would feel the action of the TIDE moving with all these "unknown" situations (love being pulled in) that OTHERS for whatever reason would be doing (and not telling "sending"). Others then would by their nature of the agreement with GOD, HAVE to investigate, thereby trying the feeling for themselves. THIS IS THE ONLY ethical way to "send love", or anything for that matter. If one is creating a destructive pattern INSIDE, and then wishes to get another to participate, using the pulling in action (I like pulling in better than implosion cause implosion seems very "explosive sounding - uncontrolled") the destructive action would be self correcting as far as the universe goes - the destructive action would terminate. If now the action was not destructive and one convinced another by that other seeing that one was "pulling in" and the action was constructive, the universe would keep the organisms doing such, more and more organisms pulling in would induce a stronger pulling in action, not by RADIATION or sending or beaming, but by the simple action of the inflow.

<<guiding the electrical wave around the heart, back inside itself.. inside out.. the power spectra of which is ../embedability>> Too complicated, just use "see the flow pulling into the spirit"

<<so after we zapped them with all that love, their bomb fantasies blow up ahead of schedule...

>> I think some if not many folks did not get the idea of implosing. I think that many folks know exactly what SEND means, and when one sends, the EXPLOSION is the result as SENDING is EXPLODING, - implosion is pulling IN - if DRUNVALO wanted me to continue to feel good, and experience love love instead of hurt feelings he would "pull in" feelings of love, not tell people and others to from the heart chakra send out (explode) the energy out into the universe.  These merkaba meditations start wit IMPLODE from the crown and the root (proper action) - BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT - then one goes through the breath out (explode) the energy which I feel results in the worst invasion of the universal action of love.  One starts with love and goes into invasion. Isn't that a   BAD energeti move, out ethics, teaching people to violate the free will of others by such an action (beaming one' personal merkaba into them?  Did I get this wrong, when I hear send the energy out from the heart, I hear "beam".

The correct move would be to every explode action, to reverse that to an implode action.  If one imploded the energy in the meditation, it would be more powerful and effective and spiritually pure than ANYTHING ever done before.  It is a simple but important correction I feel.

<< from here light waves bounce time, and back where they came from...literally... returning to true source... >> YES - that is the way to look at it.  I feel that DRU with an  EGO emphasizing focus does not, and the blown up out of proportion Jimmy/Greg nonsense was about noting the differences about the dangers of explosions, not implosions.

<< a drop is molecular waves focused, or literally in a sense imploded...>> YUP - Constable with the orgone cloud buster beamed NOTHING - the orgone water accumulator was a resonant cavity which needed to be refreshed, it is a puller-inner. In physics it is called the FASTER THAN LIGHT portion of Maxwells field equations. Or the wave which returns from the Omega point to the Source point. Looked at from present time, it is backward time going wave. My GodBox for instance uses both advanced and retarded waves to construct REALITY which is needed if one wants to truly tune in - one of the reasons I suggested that you try it on your computer.  IMPLODING actions get back to re-inforcing feeling of love, not invasion, that has been my point all along.

Summary: <<implosion making nausea, even constipation..>> Reason, don't know how to stop, rehabilitate "stopping"... proper corrective action

<<implosion in pineal making soul>>good way to look at this...

<<implosion in dna braid enabling time travel>> partially right, need both alpha and omega in the proper relationships. GodBox does this. Drunvalo called my box evil...probably cause it takes ego out of the loop - individuals personally are not needed to supply their personal energy to act as an implosion template.

<<implosion speeding up the rate at which fantasies matriculate, even bad ones..>> only because it is the way of balancing the explosion which people all to often only focus on - proper explosion, implosing give someone CONTROL of reality. ONLY those that are willing to take on the KARMA of this UNIVERSE should dare to use such a GOD production. Done by an egocentric and we have HITLER/STALIN/ALEXANDER/CAESAR - done by a MASTER and we have Jesus/Sinanda/Buddah

<<implosion feeling vulnerable too soon, unsorted..>> out of balance explosing

<<implosion, off center tilting tectonics at atlantis...>> out of balanceexplosing

<<implosion in microwave making rain (60 degree capacitive cloud buster)...>>

out of balance explosing.

<<implosion in EKF as the harmonics of compassion>> out of balance explosing

Summary synopsis - it is a figure 8 pattern in reality called metaphysically the "WORD" which is universally balanced - harmonics above and below present time traveling from the source to the death (the alpha to the omega) dimensionally fractally implosive and expressive. THE vector action viewed from the individual participants point of view is ESSENTIAL to get such correct. Done incorrectly makes a false god (stuffed so full of ego it shuts down all other life) done correctly makes a master who can open the door to teach others. Love Bob


response to bob from dan , great the little part about whether the god box does this...imploding or drawing in gently.. even..

I am reminded of a conversation we just had here about whether the embedability monitor ../embedability, was just another external gizmo here to teach love which must be done internally, and my little defense was, well if you catch technology just right, it looks back in on itself, and by connecting the external image (of heart fields gone musically embedding in this case)with the INTERNAL feeling associated with making that wave picture...then the gizmo self empowers by eliminating need for itself?!


from bob dratch: writes:<< was just another external gizmo here to teach love which must be done internally,and my little defense was, well if you catch technology just right, it looks back in on itself, and by connecting the external image (of heart fields gone musically embedding in this case) with the INTERNAL feeling associated with making that wave picture... >>

I am sure it is only that people don't realize what is happening fully about the explosion implosion issues.  All I want to do is to get people to understand that explosions are sending and sending is invasive.Invasive violates free will and I feel it is Luciferian...

Love, spoken "Implosively"


Re: Should we "Send Love"?Dan/Dratch & Dru, 19 May 1998 02:23:53 -0400

From: (Steve Kalinowski)

Greetings Dan, Some comments... in edited fashion below...

>Is the geometry of "sending" love, gently drawing in... or implosive?

>in the Jimmy Twyman controversy

>Bob Dratch speaks about...

>YES, YES YES - that is the only KARMICALLY safe way. It is the only

>way to "be an example and not violate free will." Implosion will create

a flow that is like a running brook, a current of flowing life energy that the

watcher can jump in or pass by using free will. Implosion is the white


>way - Bailey quotes this often in determining of one has bumped into a

>Master or an Aspirant (ego filled disciple).


[more snips]


>The INSTANT someone SENDS, that induces the phase reversal, the

>duplication of SENDING from the universe and chaotic events result,


>negative, there is no stability.


I like Bob's "drawing in" implosive/flow imagery... it's useful and

workable if we view conscious awareness as the actions of electrons in

dynamic systems, and btw, this agrees with my LightWork images... BUT..



><<guiding the electrical wave around the heart, back inside itself..

>inside out.. the power spectra of which is


>Too complicated, just use "see the flow pulling into the spirit"


... there is a hidden problem here with dismissing embedability and

simplifying it to a "one-way flow"... Richard Feynman says, (re: QED),

that just because you don't like a theory doesn't mean it won't work... a

good theory works whether you like it or not. The problem that I see

(with this particular piece of Bob's thought) is in the linear assumption

of an 'either/or' process... but in fact, there is a two-way

"this-and-this-too" flow in this process... when a bunch of electrons all

'spin' the same way there is an increased amplitude for photon emmisions

even though the electron 'charge' and 'mass' converge inwardly. It

doesn't matter what the predisposition of the electron is (individual

intent is precluded), the photon transfer presides (principles of least

action). Metaphor this upward in scale-- guiding the electrical heart

wave inward (recursiveness) emits light (radiates-- that's the biophotic

properties of DNA, and the piezo-electric properties of Calcium in cell

walls, etc), which will always effect neighboring systems (like it or

not)... the key to this 'external field effect' is _resonance and

entrainment_... yes, chaos emerges relative to some individual reference

point, like neural-nets bouncing about until finally settling down, but

that's the lovely dynamic of creation.. ie., that the ebb and flow of

interacting dynamics are both emergent and destructive simultaneously--

the complimentarity of the dance of electron and photon, the yin-yang of

QED. Sending love recursively inward (implosively) will also radiate...

it must, that's the way of Nature... but, what is it, actually, that gets

burned in the radiation other than the unyeilding ego (the individual

reference point which is relative to the chaos).... the True Self is



[more snips]

><< from here light waves bounce back.. in time, and back where they came


>from... literally... returning to true source... >> YES - that is the

way to look at

>it. DRU with his EGO does not, and the Jimmy/Greg nonsense was about

>explosions, not implosions.


....hmmmmm, as I participated in the Great Experiment (and led a large

group as well), I don't remember anything sounding like this at all....

The action was of personal centering, and affirming my (our) light

beingness, and singing this note in unison with others of like feeling...

(resonance and entrainment). How was this an 'imposition' upon others...

It was certainly a recursion inward of awareness (convergent electron

spin) which also radiated (photon emmision). Perhaps it also looked much

like the convergent coherence of laser. I don't recall any instruction to

"send love"... only to affirm that we "are love." Where did Bob's

impression of this come from? Has Dru mis-stated something about the



It sounds that Bob equates light emmision (radiating) with violating

another's Free-Will... but, as the photon is either absorbed or

scattered by any connecting electron in a random fashion, the electron

still seems to have the free will. Resonance absorbs, non-resonance

scatters... where is the violaton?


All in all, Bob's images are quite provoking, and for the most part very

telling.... yet, that little dualistic snag detracts from the whole... I

would like to see a more multiplexed view that agrees with QED.

Need a well lit path?? ......Burn Brightly!!

Bright Blessings....

Steve Kalinowski, Msc.D., Ph.D., Usui Reiki Master

New Age Ministry, Richboro, PA


your comments on the sending vs receiving love, that tru embedding goes both ways,

are I think MOST useful..thank you

--I guess I always consider plus vs minus charge

to be embedding going both ways, but with

a net difference of suction vs pushing

in the vortex which becomes the net charge.. dan winter

tue Sandy Troth <>

Bravo! Thanks for publishing this dialogue. I believe it to be integral

to understanding the and flowing with the laws of life. Allow me to share a

recent personal experience that I believe illustrates this concept.


F.Y.I. - The bells that I heard 4/11/98 were related to personal events.

My husband had a heart attack shortly thereafter. He suffered no residual

damage. I was permitted in the ER with him. During that time I supported

him through reaching my own still/implosive point internally and maintaining

physical touch with him. I did NOT send to him. I did not try to interfere

with his process in any way, nor was my intent to alter his destiny or make

life/death choices for him in any way. I have loved this man for 33 years.

This was the most difficult challenge of my life!


He is back to work today, physically whole. However, he now,of course, has

begun to have kundalini surges and other experiences that are blowing him

away. He's stepped onto a new path - a very different way to experience this

thing we call "life." But that's another story. One that you know all too



Thanks again for sharing essential perspectives with those who are willing

to suspend their programmed belief systems long enough to grok. Namaste, Sandy


thank you sandy, I wonder if we should gently descriminate "sending" from simply

feeling love ...dan winter

From: howard goldman <>, hi dan, we haven't met yet...maybe soon? i have a couple of plumbing

reparations to do chez james...received the most recent installment of the "sending love" debate...thought i'd throw in the following quote i tripped over last night, right after reading your e-mail...

"transformation doesn't begin with saying to ouselves, "i should be

different". transformation begins with the realization expressed in the verse of the kesa:

"vast is the field of liberation." our very lives themselves are a vast

field of liberation, a formless field of benefaction. when we wear the

teachings of life, observing our thoughts, experiencing the sensory input

we receive in each second, then we are engaged in saving ouselves and all

sentient beings, just by being who we are." charlotte joko beck; "nothing special" .. different strokes for different folks! howg

thanks so much howard, guess the emphasis on the turning inside out of compassion

begins mostly on the going inside .. first. lo phi! dan winter

Re: Should we "Send Love"?Dan/Dratch & Dru, 19 May 1998 13:51:23 -0500 (jana)


i was starting to feel like that too...that this sending business is

another game at co-dependence/savior/i-know-and-they-dont deal. i also

have seen the studies in prayer that larry dossey, et al are doing and have

seen the wave charts of patients being prayed for and not.... and the spin,

if you will, is the in-tent-i-on. ( i just love those ions!) the ones that

were 'blindly' prayed for did show marked recovery rates. it felt in

alignment with their prayer perhaps...but i have also worked in hospice

with those whos prayers were to just get the hell out of here quickly and

so i prayed that their prayers be heard.....but mostly just held open space

inside my self for myself and others...i am cautious with prayer and with

holding something in specific for myself and for anyone does and

has felt like invasion to me...i am one who does not have all the

pieces..even in the 'best' of intentions, it still feels

arrogant.......words hinder the writer here.


it has been an icky sticky slimy feeling when someone tells me that they

love me and they want that to make a difference in my life....i feel, what

silliness is this? just do it, dont bother me with expectations that i

will blow you out of your understandings with anyway....just go on and

enjoy the love for what it is....your love


we were facilitating a shamanic journey with 13 people last year when some

of what bob was saying came up. a participant wanted me to interact

withhim to 'draw' him out of his issue-cacoon. he wasnt able alone to come

to the truth he was wanting at the time, so he was claiming. i 'knew'

exactly (in my facilator's role) where he was stuck and the 'savior' wanted

to go there....but i saw in front of me the two circles whose centers are

defined by the others circumferences... oo.... overlaping in the vesica vesica that glowed in the middle i immediately saw the

destinctions of intenion, invasion and love (implosion and explosion).

when i am wholly in my complete and equal sphere, i will meet you halfway.

and i willdrink from the grail of christos in this meeting halfway and i

will call you into your fullness by meeting me half way...not in the

eclispe of my circle over or in any part of yours,.....etc. i stood in my

intension with this man and called him to comeout of and thru his issues to

MEET ME, fully, wholly, and aware of what was happening. i will not save

you for i will loose myself and disable you in the act. i want to call

myself and us all into the fullness of our potential...not live anylonger

out of the problem but out of the possiblilty of wholeness...and i dont

have a clue what that means....but when i hold the visica to guide me to my

edge and not past it as i am growing....and i hold the sacred geoemtry of

other to be interacting with me, some magic things occur. its visible and

alive and radical and unsafe in old ways and it works! end of

the-rapy...end of the rape.


the vesica held and healed. the circles centers were defined by unity.

he was not able to meet me halfway and i did not go into his space to

rescue him. he knew exactly what was happening and he defined himself in

the process. it was amazing. we all learned so much by that. we do

exactly what we are able to do at the time and that is real. it is clean.

the particular issue that he was wanting to come out of was made whole by

this exercise and the process of being really seen was profound..


i felt the moray of the two circles intermingling and the instance coming

out of the your 10 spins of the gm...real or not, it works in

the heart for me...and to stay right there in the center with it, not

wavering in the sentiment of anything. just there. period..


(i add that when i am using radical sexual tantric exploration and am using

the 10 phi's as the buddah field of implosion....i haev to find the

fibernochi to come back into history on....history being my body as i knew

it to be before this experience of defusion and fusion . i have found

myself in an inner ear spin of dizzies for days after on of these

encounters without the out of sink numbers to find the golden brick road,

the physical, back into me am still working on the grounding process once

i let go to become funtional again....any suggestions?)


i feel yu can see the vesica, wish i had drawing in this email but you know

the art. any wobble destroyed the prayer, the edge, teh agreement to

interact and see. this is what i felt with bob

s note...this is what i felt when i did not participate in the model that

was sent in the' india connection' and i see what the reprocussions are.

the conditions are too rare now for any deviation of play, of any nonsence

of in-tent-i-on and integrity. the chaos is too sensitive and our skin is

too thin to hide anything from anything it was ever, but

especially now. we are not babies...we are gnostics in school. and are

capable of knowing this in spite of our educations and fragile little

egos...all of us! we are engaged whether we choose to be or not .

i appreciate your missives.


Next below is a major contribution from William Buehler, one of the chief templar fabric of time repair group out of Creston, works with "Thoth" .. (shades of Rennes.. and all)

fr bill, "William S. Buehler" <>

The subject includes a few ideas about the Oranur detonation and also the

magnetic field. Sinclair addees might look at the last paragraph re the

1398 Expedition. Mention of the Middin Chamber in the Pyramid. Grid theory.


Hi Dan, Just a few remarks in a hurry, related to your recent message

clobbered now with a seminar coming up Saturday (starting a new group and

also trying to explain to the two existing groups what we've been doing).

I'm also getting help from Thoth in the next phase of putting together the

Light body (composite) blasted from the time implosions.


1. RE projecting love to others without their consent. This makes me

nervous. Love is experienced at many levels with many expressions much less

than pure harmonics of divine Grace. It is a natural carrier wave that

MIGHT overprint with less worthy unconscious intent or even conscious

"do-gooder" codes ...the old story of karmic interference, you know what I

mean. Our group merkaba depends on the clarity of (1) the SELAH (Divine

Essence in the Silence) or the "Sat" aspect in Sat-chit-ananda" and (2) the

GRACE factor which I would connect with the "ananda" aspect. We emphasize

the Selah prior to the Grace, the Grace eminent from the Void. I would

trust that only to some degree, depending on how it was then used in a

non-intrusive mode when coupled with intent. No problem in a matrix of

groups using a shared, self determined intention. The merkaba would then

become more of the nested golden ratio spiral generated Grail or Reshel

format you are familiar with.


This gets more technical when using the Layooesh or prime pillar ("Pillar

of Light") which bridges two membranes: Maha-Ratri (half light side of the

Ascension gate) through the Star Grail and into the Maha-rhim membrane

(full light side). This is, according to Thoth, the "Skittuim" pillar. It

includes both sides of the membranes as well. The pillar forms the "Field

of Deliverence" from the Oritronic half light spectrum into the full light

Metatronic realm. This Pillar is complemented by a second resonant pillar:

the Avatalkim pillar. This is the "Golden Pillar of individuation which

aligns to each soul and its projected bio-system (ie its physical bodies,

ren/khat/ka, I assume; WSB) that is in resonance with the dynamic of the

Star Grail. This pillar represents the 'Individual Extension' of the 44:44

Star Grail dynamic to that Individual." (Thoth's quote via Revs.

Maia/Simeon Nartoomid). Thoth also describes the Layooesh (beyond Hurtak's

description) "...the Lay-oo-esh as 'an inter-dimensional columnar field

projecting from the Greater Universes into the Lesser Universes for the

purpose of communicating and transferring consciousness of the Absolute, or

Supernal Mind.'"


My approach is to duplicate the same vibration when connecting agencies,

trying to build a Metatronic or full Light mechanism both in the Pillar as

well as associated "Heap" (Gen 31:45-32:2). I don't wish to involve lower

levels but realize that neither our group(s) OR the other (IF PHYSICAL) is

probably working at the appropriate level. So I like to work between groups

via inter-dimensional mentors. I think that your system is pointed in the

right direction but should include in the intention to work only at

Metatronic levels regarding any project. At least that is what we are

trying to do but through assistance by angelic, hierarchical mentors. In

practical terms we first get to the best level we can which very frequently

uses the Layooesh process. Once at level we go with the flow and team up

with the mentors to go with whatever project they have for us depending on

our level, degree of clarity, etc.. The geometric group schematic enhances

the group function.


Work in these levels transcends time. Any time jumping would probably

better be between continua rather than in this fallen continuum unless

working on hierarchical/Solarian projects WITH their agencies. Most of our

phenomena is pretty mind blowing but most of it is bumping the high

Oritronic curtain or Maha-Ratri membrane. We're working on it. Use of the

Layooesh involves two/three more levels or forms beyond the double tetra

Key of David. We've used them but with mixed results. It appears that they

will work by phasing in central fields of the SELAH and GRACE combined,

well beyond mechanistic or geometric formats. We combine them. The other

two forms involve the ENNEAD energetic and then the star pentahedron. I do

NOT adjust CCW spin rate but will adjust CW (against the CCW) spin to

balance group members when they are falling out of their chairs. Rarely



Putting the collective heart into an internet scenario should be checked

with hierarchy. Logically it forms an "entrainment" unity and would

ostensibly be limited related to what a few groups could do at Metatronic

level. But it might be a good idea in reaching a number of persons as well

as a range of elemental aspects that are in that plateau phase. Again,

would it naturally attract persons into a realm that could be overlaid by

some of the other junk in internet? I don't have any idea but it seems to

be worth asking. My feeling is that it is a great idea but requires some

careful control including at the hierarchical level.


2. RE the Oranur Wave from the detonation in India and which direction the

wave is going (seems to moving both directions). My "spin" on this is that

there is a nested core of Platonic grids in the planet's center resembling

the illustration in Lawlor's SACRED GEOMETRY (pg 107) which provides

formats for the Planetary Mind/Racial Mind to function in. This grid core

also is supplemented by the RHOMBIC ENNEACONTRAHEDRON linked via the

pentadodecahedron. The RE is Metatronic, made up of Golden Ratio rhombuses

(Eye of Ra, L-Gates working on implosion) and thus it resonates directly

with much more than simple gates ...a primary creation matrix. Most people

do not know of this grid and fewer use it due to so few working in the

Metatron ...still, it is now a primary grid due to the well advanced

continuum shift. The Core grid (1) projects static comparative nodes/grids

to the surface, the grids most people are most familiar with, (2)

duplicates temporary versions of itself in different combinations to

"track" solar/cosmic events (such as a passing comet) directly, and (3)

tracks the Sun's Atoma (spiritual center) constantly for direct spiritual

linkage. The Tetra does this latter deal in keeping with its Key of David

(Rev 3:7-13), Pillar/tube, kobal sphere role. (Examples in Denderah ceiling

Boats (merkabas) of Ra, Glastonbury triangle: Tor, nose of annubis, Cadbury

Hill.) The magnetic field provides the memory function while the grids do

the "thinking", perceiving.


The Core Grid spins as a unit with the duplicate matrices doing their own

spin as per their assignments, meanwhile passing the processed info up to

the surface. The Core spin cycle is daily. The noticable effect is an

apparent duplication of like events around the planet occuring at about the

same latitude within a few days. This is noted in very important events

having heavy impact in the Racial/Gaia mind(s). The Core Grid can rotate in

the same manner you rotate the torus to get a specific "CRP" (Critical

Rotational Position) to create a discreet tone or chord (you see as the

Hebrew letter, a good parallel). The torus connection is excellent due to

the Flashing Universe dynamic: the Platonic spherical form implodes

constantly through the Neutra Mode pulling itself inside out to cyclically

create the torus (the causal mind relative to the spherical form). Thus we

would get the impression, by seeing these events popping up in all

directions, that there is a confused "drift" incorrectly correlating the

events with wind drift or planetary spin.


3. RE the nausea in implosion experience. This is caused, along with

dizziness and weakness, with inept time gating (implosion). The inner ear

is affected, generating the rest. Happened to me a few times; once I was

shagged off to the ER with sirens and flashing lights thinking it was a

heart attack. It was an acute vertigo attack. Thoth explained it later,

correlating it to my recent life in Rennes le Chateau where I was doing

that kind of thing. The incidents were simply triggered by Wood's GENISIS

diragrams of the Reshel grid used in the area (which are accurate; his

cosmology is not Metatronically aligned however ...comets and crap).


Thoth gave us the Eye of Ra (phi rhombus) to use to clear up the groups'

time glitches but STRONGLY ADMONISHED (!!) that the process of implosion

should ONLY be used to ground the Metatron. He gave us some very specific

procedures with it to avoid damage, confusion, et al. Recall the event I

mentioned where the San Francisco group leader imploded her group (before

we knew there was such a thing) and physically removed her group from this

continuum ...the physical room, doorways never existed. Her merkabah was

still protected so no damage was done, the parameters relaxed as an object

lesson, but her people were pretty sick during the "ride" (extreme nausea,



I don't know how you are using the implosion technique but I highly

recommend good communications with competent innerplanes mentors before

using anything, for instruction and monitoring. My light body is severely

damaged, has been for a few thousand years, due to implosion events. If the

LP-40 went now I wouldn't make it since the bodies can't download the

Metatron. Hence the big push.


Due to the Gizeh Pyramid faux paux, opening/trashing the seals before their

time, LP-40 has been advanced without the Hierarchy's ok ...physical

humanity, free will, has thus advanced the whole shebang and the carefully

orchestrated programs for getting max people through LP-40 are crashed and

being rebuilt. Great spinning of cosmic wheels, trying to make the best of

a can of worms. Pretty stupid to mess with seals, particularly in the

planet's key temple, but there you have it. When have we ever done anything

smart? Anyway, where we thought we had some fairly good programs well in

hand they're pretty much down the loo. Changes on top of changes. Reminds

me of my Navy days ..."if you can't take a joke don't join the club."


4. RE the Onanur damage to the magnetic field: disruption and memory

loss/burnout, I don't have any Hierarchical perspective on it but simple

logic suggests a possible upside to the flail. We know the mag field is

failing and the memory loss with it, obviously layed on anticipating the

LP-40 shift and the required purging. The OWL (former Montaukers) tried to

record the field to reboot it after the crash, in the ash and trash levels

comfortable for the Grays, etc., but the good guys were a jump ahead of

them. (Gives us a feel for the importance the opposition is giving trying

to perpetuate this continuum by rebirthing the same shoddy Oritronic

memories.) We know of India's high calling with her many pure spiritual

schools but also of her degrading much of their vector through astral house

devas and all. Further, much of the best thinking/systems are now overtaken

by Metatronic valences and are useless baggage. If their local magnetic

memory could be seriously disrupted then the best/clearest leaders could

"get the Oritronic Monkey out of their heads" and upgrade the area in the

Racial Mind and World Soul. So...what the OWL might believe: "let's blow

away India's memory, confuse the thinking, scare the Hell out of everyone

and cripple the evolutionary flow" might just be condoned by the Lords of

Karma, et al, with the thought: "Great, let 'er blow, the loss is trash

anyway and in the right area."


You might have forgotten, the "Magnetic Temple" is now in the Atlantic with

its axis approaching Greenland's southern cape. The MT is a large area in

the magnetic field that is programmed with the Great Pyramid geometry. The

mag field flux angle of 51-51 was at the Plateau during the 11 Feb 2900 BCE

date when cosmic/solar/galactic axes alligned. The mag field loaded an

illumination program into the MT then and has been precessing it westardly

since. The MT is the main interface dynamic between the Racial and GAIA

minds, thus a major factor in creating the World Soul (combination of

Humanity and Devachan, the Devachan being generated from the GAIA mind).


Regarding the Metatronic Reshel grids, Grail dynamic etc., the MT transited

the Ruta position (49N, 29W) during the Henry Sinclair expedition to the

new world in 1398 CE. The Expedition sailed over the position (not written

history, my own reading on it confirmed by soul interview via Phyllis

McCoy) and triggered the Gates into Ruta (which had not fallen with this

continuum) thus "no-timing" the projects rebooting of the Reshel (Grail)

grids both in Europe and the Americas. My idea is that this action, on a

higher level yet, also upgraded the MT program as well as providing

downloading into this present critical transition period. The Pyramid

socket positions in the MT span from central Africa into the Caribbean off

Jamaica. We note that this spans virtually all of old Atlantis. Most

importantly the MIDDIN CHAMBER or heart of the Pyramid went over Ruta at

that time. This small chamber is at 44.49672769 degrees or the cosine of

the Judah Tribe in Numbers in the Jewish scriptures (the sequence giving

the true astrological sectors). This angle from the sockets gives us the

chamber position. It is also the same in the Reshel grid and can be

duplicated in architecture, earth grids, and groups. More is available on

this chamber's function if you wish it. (Thoth's info via Revs. Maia and

Simeon Shamayyim-Nartoomid.)


I suppose all this confuses the issue more than helping it along. But they

are ideas that might be pursued by persons more qualified than I am.


Blessings Be...



5/20/98 8AM

On Winter's page: sending love. Since love or one mind IS - exists as a

condition of being human, then all that can be sent is access or unblocking

or permission to be human. Is this also the same structure as light: is

light an unblocker to the balanced field of energy [EMF?]. Thus we are

already within the fields, so to think of light and other "forces" as

acting or doing something would be "missing the mark". If we are within the

field of contradicting - cancelling complementary 180deg out of phase

[balanced] non-flowing, then light or other "energy" may be considered as

phase adjustment process. If this "field" is the same as consciousness,

then the phase adjustment is "regestering" in consciousness. This conscious

process has the same processing structure as the use of the laser [source

of coherence] in holography. It is the receiver [material that combinds

with itself] of the interference pattern in a phase code that we

experience as the hologram, and this same coherent source reconstructs -

reMembers the original information recorded as the hologram.

Thus "sending love" as if it is a power or material leads to incorrect

procedures since everyone is self organizing and thus has their own unique

path to self realization of their human nature which is already sharing

itself as if all humans existed within a single virtual skull.

[Traditionally this "skull" is represented as cathredral, church, temple,

and others. The new representation is of everyone connected to virtual

neurons within this new neual network called the internet.]

Thus the variety of access blocks may range from blocking contradiction,

[not contradiction blocking but trying to stop necessary contradictions

which leads to run-away feedback] to holding on [codependancy: love at all

costs.], to so many others within the alphabet called "emotion" or the

larger alphabet called "intellect" or the smaller called "sensation".

When we restrict the alphebet of intellect to only a few letters of the

emotional alphebet we cannot access the map of our complete human nature

and then cannot access "love" except within the restricted context of

"family". Given that the "font size" of the older alphabets is much larger

[more powerful] and thus more "attractive - attracting" that the "mere"

intellect [as put by so many that participate in runaway feedback]. With

the [at least] double number of letters in the intellectual alphabet, so

many more subtle and gentle aspects [fractals at the next "scale" of

resolution] can be shared and resonated.

Dualism again reares its head: we get so involved in the "larger" energy of

emotional that we represent "intellect" as being emotionless. Right away

this reveals the failure to access the intellegence of the emotional

alphabet and the resonance of the intellectual alphabet. In Buddhist

literature this intellectual resonance is called "eternal delight", and

maybe "agappe" in the West. Is it not also "curiosity" and "play" and

invention and something it seems only humans develop: HUMOR?

Details upon request.


fr dan:"intellegence of the emotional

alphabet and the resonance of the intellectual alphabet."

I like... some relation between their symmetry crossed the life of the long, to the life of their short wave. lo phi, dan

Subject: Thanks for the IDebate,Wed, 20 May 1998 16:12:52 EDT, From: BInman9453 <>

I can't begin to tell you how surprised I was to read the "debate" as this is

a conversation Scott McKinney and I have had many times - yet we don't talk

about it since it doesn't conform to the "love and light" game. When somebody

tells me they are going to pray for me, I just figure it is their "need", not

mine and brush it off mentally.


When I came to the part about the dizziness, I really was shocked. This has

happened to me, to the point of laying on the bathroom floor for two days!

But, I never mentioned it to anyone as I thought it reflected "poorly" on my

spirituality. I knew I wasn't ill, I just couldn't get control back so I

sucked on ice cubes and waited until it passed.


Thanks for sharing with me. I tend to isolate myself in reading, meditation

and contemplation. Bette


Re: Thanks for the IDebate



From: BInman9453 <>Thu, 21 May 1998 08:01:35 EDT

. It was such a relief to read the postings as at the time, I

didn't understand what was happening. I was so dizzy that I couldn't open my



Keep me in the loop - it is deeply appreciated. This discussion is going to

cause some explosions. One man that I sent it to really flew into a rage

about it, my computer is still smoking from his e-mail. He is also

experiencing a liver problem.....h,m,m,m, some connection going on. bette

carla sent a note about ET problem mentioning Eliz Clair Prophet..

the issue about whether God images were self empowering arose: (dan wrote)


thanks for your thoughtful response, including eliz claire prophet



trying for more clarity,


it seem we are in great agreement on the

alien parasitism situation..


I resonate well with the andromedan info from

alex collier


the current books about alien agenda do not seem

to deal with both the et and our problem of

how dna gets ensouled, and the limitations of

technogy without emotion self empowered to do that...



how does eliz claire prophet respond to the spreading

criticism that when st germain learned how

eating gold power articficially makes

astral body sustainable, and now trapped there

must milk human groups like

eliz claire prophet's for astral food

(their stirred up emotion during her group rites..)

thus also preventing those humans for

truly in stillness eating their own

ecstact and spinning up their dna..


it is a viewpoint that must be dealt with because

dozens of spiritual groups

are learning these solara

stargates are really astral bleeding for

lo grade et parasites..


a certain clairvoyance can really see

who is eating whom during

what 90% of human ritual activity appears to be

which is

astral milkhouse for lo grade ET's..


it is not pleasant but seeing thru this

is like noticing that christ is the name

for the principle of how waves crystalize

by the symmetry of sharing, that principle

is immortal, and it is electric when you inhabit

that principle,

all attachment to the personality ideas around christ

and god fall like mud from the mould..


getting to pure principle requires feeling love

from all waves which embed and become

self aware, naming the self-organizing potential of waves

god is tricky because personality notions

are very wasteable because they do not live past

a few lifetimes..


if you noticed you were mostly the way your

dna chose to whisper and self replicate,

would you then call your dna god

because it was so self aware when it whispered in your

ear (song in the blood, sang real,sangraal),


or would you be more empowered know how it

became so sutainably self organizing thru time

by it acheivement into recursion geometry...

(willed mutation of the species by satprem)


then you would speak back, in its own language

when your inner voice whispered..

in the language of pure principle, minus

god personality baggage which always falls

back into very UNimmortal gender stereotypes etc..dan winter

Subject: EarthHeart Wed, 20 May 98 13:31:49 CDT, Mnoa or Brad <>, To:

Hi! Win, (*________*), I would like to share with you something I am not sure is related to

this project Dan Winter has going or not. It is a vision I had about 2 or 3

weeks ago, or maybe it was yesterday, funny how time has no meaning now days

for me.(*____*)

This is my heart-version of harmonics:

I saw me step out of my body, (I was in my Light body, I am

thinking, as it was like a transparent me stepping out), and then I stepped

into another persons body, to show them I could really feel what they could

feel. (They, could actually see my transparent self step out of me and into

them.) As I was seeing this picture, I was also gettin impressions of the

priciples of free-will also. I asked first if I could show them I could feel

what they feel and show them proof of me being able to do this. Now I step

into them, and I can feel all of them and all the experiences they have ever

felt or experienced, it was like I had their replay of their life before me

and in me at the same time. So, next I step back out of their body and back

into mine. I then ask if they would like to step into my body and feel what

I feel, which if they decide they would like to, then I can thru my heart

channel cosmic energy waves, let them feel the TRUTH of who they are and

thru this they are free to choose to go back to illusion,(which is fear and

seperativeness) or freed of the limitedness

thru the unified field of LOVE. In my thinking, this is like: If I can FEEl

what YOU FEEL, and You can FEEL what I FEEL then are we not ONE and the same.

Win, this is so great, now others will have the chance to really

FEEL and know what they are FEELING without a doubt, they will have the

proof before their eyes, in this new technology game they are working on

going Global with. I only hope my vision will be a confirmation to others,

that this is very possible . I am a sensitive and empath, so I can FEEL what

others feel, I just wish others could feel this wonder-filled cup that

runneth over in my heart to and for others, as well as I can feel their pain

and suffering, in which case they would have no pain and suffering if they

could feel the cosmic LOVE that I feel that flows thru me. That was my major

wish, when I came incarnation at this time, is for others to feel this

beautiful LOVE that is FREE and Heals and perfects everything.

I am still not real sure what this vision was all about, but it went

right along with the information I gathered about bio-feedback and training

the heart and mind to intend what you want to feel. When I was reading about

this, my heart was doing dances, it was so happy and elated. I wanna play

this game. (*___*)

Also somewhere in what I read the word cohersion, had a special

meaning for me, that I also wanted to share. This, I believe was telepathic

information I recieved a few months ago. Light workers are cohersing the

darkness to the LIGHT, it is not like how the dark forces used this to

coherse the masses into the slumber tho. It is more like we are courting the

darkness into the light by the use of gentleness, kindness and compassionate

understanding. How could anyone resist this foursome. (*___~) We are

creating a vacuum of LOVE so powerful it will melt the hardest of HEARTS.

Win, please share this with others, if you feel it would be appropriate., By Their Fruits You shall FEEL and


dan wrote: dear astara mona.. thank you for feeling and most of all

for making shareable your lovely dream!


it is so helpful to give a voice to articulate that your heart is dancing..


to articulate is to turn the awareness back in,

the sequence of (articulated) folds..


so it recurs..


interesting your somehow merging

the words coherence







coherence is when all the waves line up like soldiers

phase locking in step (a laser),

recursion is when that lock step is geometry

of PHI nest instead of times 2 nesting..

(the waves never interfere destructively)

sustainable coherence must recur...


so I guess "cohersion" would be a most persuasive kind of


perhaps it sounded too close to coersion..


on the gentleness possible if we enter the white light:



are we all white light? fr dan w


if color is symmetry tilt arrival angle of photon

donut at phase tilt calibrating retinal cone,

then ...


white light would be complete inventory

arrival of ALL tilts or phase angles of arriving

torus photons at once. They summate to white

as long as element of each of the 7 tilts

of tetra are included (rainbow), and they

sort to that on emergence from focal phase lock..

(prism as traffick jam, sorts for shareable tilt

in tetra phases)


to say white, then does not specify optically

whether light enveloped packet wave donuts are

entering or emerging from

the sort (implosion) which

creates susainabiity (immortality)



white light which lazes

becomes additionally

phase coherent and then

embeddably geometrically recursive.(implosive)..

the wave then penetrates..

(see phase conjugate mirror nonlinear optics)


QUALITY of white is issue, dan

may23, from (Shanor/Schlosser), Thanks, wonderful synchronicity. Cynthia at SPIRITUS SANCTUS RECORDS.












(This was taught to me as THE LAW OF ONE back in 1968, and works

wonderfully in allsituations. Inner and outer since it is based on the

unity which prcedes and is the basis of the duality.)

may 20, MCLYNES1 <> (of sentics work on wave nature of emotion, and musical microsctructure to optimize emotion software etc.., cf manfred clynes on web): Manfred Clynes: superconductor music and much more

Dan, If I send anger to you, will it phase invert so that you will receive love?

Only asking.

Manfred Clynes

dan winter wrote: manfred,

in the way I have oversimplified your waveforms,

(in a way you don't agree with)

anger and hate have points of maximum pressure

at roughly 1/3 or 1/7 into duration ref How to Touch (to love), and braidingDNA

(it was on how to determine end point that you felt

my oversimplication broke down)


now if it were to turn out there was something to

this little idea that

you start a simple interference cascade by

cascading a simple ratio down a wave,

when you emote..


then the ratio cast down the wave by anger

would specifically be maximally destructive

wave interference, in the sense that waves

BEATING with themselves at that ratio,




now IF the childishly romantic idea that the

point of maximum pressure in the love

wave nears .618, THEN that wave interfering

with itself, could cascade both inward and out

forever nonstructively...


--if any of this means anything, then it MIGHT be

true that perfect love (a wave mechanic inviting in

all of spin) (phi spiral implosion per the email earlier)

would receive the approach

of arriving DESTRUCTIVE wave interference

WITHOUT being perturbed, TO THE EXTENT

the constructive wave was PERFECT..


I believe that what would bounce back IS EXACTLY


PHASE CONJUGATE MIRROR, in quantum optics. (self organization by implosion? eliminating all "phase aberation" ref Bob Zawada, Roswell Park Cancer Institute, Buffalo)

(There I believe that what happens at the wave annihilation

point in the non-linear medium, is the pine coning of

perfect implosion as depicted in the first pictures on my web site


>From that complete phase correction, AND total perfect


--so now you have heard my little fantasy.. I would be very anxious to know your further thoughts.

thank you, dan winter

Re: actual wave map to send love transforms anger?,fr Life In Balance <>

HiHo Dan,

Actually, I have a true story about love transforming anger. There was an

old blind woman living with her grandson in Colorado. Her nearest neighbor

was 3/4 mile to the east, i mile to the west a nd slightly over one mile to

the south. She was known for her kindness, strength and ability to be

nonjudgmental. I was told this story by a midwife who delivered her

grandson, some14 years before this event. One night very late, she heard

someone enter her cabin, then make his way to the first bedroom that was

hers. Already up and alert, the intruder found her waiting at the foot of

the bed in pitch darkness when he entered. She immediately put out her hand

and touching the intruder told him that at this late hour he surely must be

in desparate need of kindness and offered hgim shelter and food. She told

him that she would give him a place to sleep in the kitchen, but in

exchange, he was not to disturb her grandson who was asleep. She said he

was so moved by her kindness that he was trying to hold back a sob. Feeling

even more maternal instinct for this mab, she took him to her kitchen,

clooked him a meal, made his bed and returned to her own room to wait.

Eventually, she slept. In the early pre dawn hours, she was awakened by the

sound of banging at her door. It was the police. This man, though he washed

her dishes and folded his bedding before he left her cabin, was escaped

from a hospital for the criminally insane and had brutally murdered all

three of her neighbors and their families. When the police questioned her

as to why she felt she had been spared, she answered simply," Why, he

couldn't kill someone who offered him love instead of fear."


Just like I tell my self defense students. The best way to not look like a

target is to learn to replace fear with strong images that evoke feeling

loved and valued.

Do not strive to observe the Light, strive to become the Light, otherwise

you maintain the illusion that you are somehow separate from others and all

of creation. This illusion is the cause of all mistakes and all suffering.

Be well & joyful! A ton of LoPhi, Rave

re:actual wave map to send love transforms anger? Sat, 23 May 1998 20:24:59 -0400, From: "D.O. van Nieuwenhuijze" <>

Re: 'Broken Love' ... Hi Dan,

Thanks for the visions and views on the reverberationf of love.

Herewith some of the mechanics of the transfromation of 'love into anger',

which is not about love, but about the transfromation itself;

(including the bias in those who imagine they 'send love').


What about this:

The core point is: rates are ratio's.


When anger 'turns into' love, the ratio is changed.

It is not the change in love which is seem, but a flaw in the


In this, a role is played by the multiplicity of the compression

transfromation itself; especially the multiplicity (inner coherence) by

which it is characterised. (Also when this is broken.)

Cf. the 2 spirals of the DNA, which with a different point of perspective

can be seen as 12; cf. the Fourier harmonics by which a stage coach

cartwheel on TV is seemingly turning backward (in time, as anachronism



If people send love, it vibrates the fractal; as a whole.

Love is best compared to a white noise spectrum, and it will resonate

anything and everything; love is the principle of integratedness,

connection in action; 'wetness and sharing power' as you, Dan, call it.


It is thereby also invariant to transformation. (As is the Phi-spiral. (if

unbroken ...))

Imagine that the model of the Phi-spiral describes this transformation;

then there is a wide end of the funnel (cf. the surface of the ocean),

which is receptive for any and all frequencies.

And a narrow 'other end', where the (compressed) signal 'comes out'. (Now

able to 'stand on its own'.)


Thus, there are singularities, Passage Ways, through which it is possible

to go from one reality to another, by turning the reality/realisation

'inside out'. (The taboos of society, anomalies of physics, singularities

of mathematics, black holes of astronomy. (It is all the same.))

This can be modeled by a vortex (as more 'visual' form that a phi-spiral):

it is wide open on one end, and very focued at the other. It touches on a

flat plane surface, as well as one point. It has the full spectrum wide

wave band selectivity and sensitivity, and becomes more and more specific,

into ultimately one unique point.


Normally, i.e. ideally, the Vortex or Phi-spiral would describe the

transition of energy under preservation of coherence. It would bound any

specific (Closed System) reality; and connect it to the (Open System)

universe. (Cf. The Maelstrom at the edge of the world in Viking lore.)

At it, the wide band spectrum is converted into and through the

transcendental point into a meta-virtual point: Love is turned into


(As this takes place the energy goes from one dimension into the next,

creating the link between heaven and earth, or metaphysics and physics;

whichever way around.)



Now .. imagine that the Vortex is 'broken': the transition can not be made.

As a result (as the Phi Spiral shows) the frequency

tranformation/compression cascade is interrupted. Instead of following the

fractal into ever greater coherence, the vibrations 'scatter' on the

'fracture' line; Viz. a scatter matrix (in physics) or the sparks of a

diamond (a system of attuned fracture lines).

The (geodesic) propagation lines do not 'line up', and the process of

compression or unpacking 'cracks up.


What happens, in the Phi-Spiral model, is a change of frequency or rate,

thus ratio: instead of continuing the fractal acceleration (thus

compression), the vibrations do not intensify as they regroup and compact,

but fracture within themselves: same as diffraction/refraction of waves

over a barrier. or light over any edge. But in this case they are not

simple waves but embraided waves, as you, Dan have described.


Viz. the diffraction of a braided wave: it is a 'braided' fracture (in a

way an unpacking/explosion of some kind): the waves which are in the

process of being compressed, find they 'miss a step' for the next

compression stage (cf. staged rockets in blast off), and in a way fall into

an 'informational gap'. (Cf. a gap in a wave guide for radio waves; or a

fracture in a ruby of a pumped laser.)


Practically it means that the system runs into an Open End, long before the

compression transformation itself was complete; the signal reflects of the

Open End (as it would have done if it had reached the end of the Vortex;

where normally it would have 'shot of into space'). (This is the principle

of acceleration-release used in logarithmic horns for sound amplification,

but now understood in reverse sense.)

It is also seen in the transition 'through the Daath node' in the KaBaLaw;

or the 'navigation through the Black hole'. Buddhism knows it as the

transition into/through the centre of the wheel of karma.


It is the fine tuning of the turning of the Phi-spiral, which creates the

convergence by which the signal can be so coherently compressed that it

will converge into a node. In a way it thereby 'collapses on itself, and

becomes so coherent that it can continue to exist 'as a single point' (a 4D

soliton), when it reaches the limiting end of the Phi-spiral. At that point

it opens up into the dual/counter domain; and can continue to exist as an

autonomous 'unit/unity there. (Containing in it all the in-formation from

the domain from which it came.

(As it 'shoots' out at the end of the transformation vortex/spiral, it

enters into the inverse domain; as e.g. when the transition from physics to

metaphysics is achieved, or inverse.)


It is that integrity, and autonomy, which characterises for examle the

nature of our soul. (A bindu of consciousness in this physical domain.)


It is that compression which creates the empowerment of the process; and

the 'creation' of 'newness' in that 'other' domain, 'after' the 'inversion

of reality'. It is by the completeness of that compression that (like a

acorn contains the oak) the complete unfolding is possible with the

information from that other domain, making it viable for that (now

autonomous node) to 'exist' 'at the other end' of the


(In a way this is how the soul is projected into this space: the spirit,

it's Open System basis, is inverted in this way to 'appear' as a 'point'

(Bindu) within a person (see my paper "The Architecture of the Soul"). It

is the mathematical equivalent of the inversion of a space into a point.

(Anthroposophists us the terms intensive and extensive points.))


When this normal process of embraiding, compression, and coherencing is

disrupted (when a vortex is broken, as described above), then the

transformation itself is disrupted too. Instead of reaching the

mathematical logical 'end' (when the compression and embraiding has been

maximised. and all coherence is internalised), the compression 'breaks


Giving 'break of products', 'informational debrif, Fragments of


Where all wave frequencies otherwise would have been integrated, parts are

now left out. There are blinds spots in the informations, thus holes in the

coherence, thus gaps in the consciousness.

The break-off of compression is also always at the point where the

compressed energy 'breaks off': The spectrum of the released signal

/reflects/ the flaw of the 'compression vortex where it was processed.


It means that the flaw in the vortex, and the flaw in the compression, and

the energy losses in the 'virtual particle' are all but different

expressions of the same.


Where ideally the compression would be complete, and the resulting Virtual

Point would be intact.

(It would be recursive, up to the point of "not losing any energy"; an

informational 'black hole', a reality in itself', a 'seed' of

consciousness', a Luciferian loop of light'; a unit consiousness; a

'representation of god.)

(The Torus which you describe, Dan, as model of a free travelling soliton

wave, is but a 3D representation of a free travelling 4D point.)

Po: It is this coherent 4D point which is the aim of life; once wholeness

is achieved the soul is so coherent that it can now integrate any frequency

and continue to exist.


But the transformation in the 'broken vortex' produces a 4D point which is

incomplete; it 'leaks', as there are some vibrations which is can not

contain; because it failed to undergo that phase of compression as that was

where the Phi-Vortex 'broke off'.

It is not complete in itself.



Now, take this image, of a white noise full range spectrum entering such a

phi-spiral, which is broken.


And realise that, in the Phi -spiral model, a rupture of fracture will mean

that the geometries do not align.


It means that there is a change in angle, thus in phase angle, with a

corresponding phase shift; that is what refraction and diffraction is all


Any reflection (which is the logical result) must be understood as a

inversion between Inner and Outer processing: where the energy was in a

process of compaction compression, it now suddenly no longer 'coagulates'

but 'dissolves'. (The alchemist used the terms 'coagulo' and 'dissoluo'

rather than 'compression' and 'unpacking'.) Self and non-self become

con-fused. The flaw is 'exposed'.


In terms of geometry the change in phase angle reflects onto a change in

phase relationship in the signal being compressed.

But ...

(Return to the notion of the 2 strand DNA, which is operationally 12 strand

when a change of perspective is made.)

When the signal (in the course of being compressed, thus (relativistically)

'speeding up') hits the fracture, it reflects, refracts, diffracts, and

propagates; with a change of phase. It changes direction (in many

directions), it changes rate of compression (acceleration thus gravity) (in

many ways), and it changes frequency-stacking-procedure (at many levels):

its information packing process is suddenly 'hybridised' with one which has

a different packing frequency; which means it changes phase (thus degree of



It means that the broad band wave signal which came in, and was being

compressed as it 'travelled into the funnel', suddenly sets up a logical

series of reverberation, phase changes, of both the 'information bolus' or

'bolt' (travelling into the vortex). But also of the vortex itself.

Gravity, acceleration, time and materialisation are simultaneously changed.

(We see the same process in the digestion of food; and the

unpacking-repacking is contains.)


What is perceived is that the the coherence (love) is lost; in the

cracking-up of the signal compression.

The reverberations induced by the changes of coherence (consciousness) are

known as 'emotions' (i described some aspects of that in 'Psycho Logics'

many years ago').


Depending on the degree of change of rate, the love will turn (indeed, a

change of phase angle) into anger, resentment, hate, fear, joy, etcetera.

(Just as Chinese medicine well describes the scatter matrix, which is the

logical result of the way such a information ball or bolus' cracks up.)

(Again, Dan, your model of the tetrahedron and the photon spin angles

'explains' what goes on: some of the energies (compression waves) travel on

and 'produce' "joy"; some reflect back and affect the vortex; causing

"fear"; some reflect back into the vortex and continue as surface waves

there, known as "fear", and so on. With the 7 independent spin angles

involved; the same mechanism which is seen in the spin-empowerment used in

the heart. It is indeed all very mechanical.)



It is thus not the sending of love which creates the anger or hate; it is

the inability of the receiver to process the energy. Or the inability of

the sender to process love.

(The first is a limitation in the processing; the second a limitation of


The first is an interruption of the transfromation; the second a

restriction of wave bandwidth.)


For the first case, in fact, 'anything that moves' would have induced hate,

because any vibration would expose/show the flaw of the Vortex, the

compression conic, the 'broken phi-spiral'.

(Dan, your model has habitually assumed that the spiral is whole; evidently

this does not always need to be the case; it is the fracture of the spiral

which explains how 'emotions; arise; as simple reflections off a boundary

(thus closed-system to open-system interface).


In the second case, it would affect anything that is whole.

This case involves a shortcoming in the frequency spectrum, and the gaps it

contains. With the result that 'the sending of love'; induces a backfiring

for all those frequencies which the sent spectrum lacks; that energy is

ricocheted and reflected as 'anger' (or any emotion) (or potentially


This has to do not with a limitation in the Receiver (thus indication of a

pathology there), but a bias in the Sender (thus a pathology there).


Especially in the new age scene, there is a lot of bigotry; and bias. The

second case is not to be ignored. There are many many 'preachers in

disguise', who pretend to (and seriously believes themselves that they)

'send love', while in fact they (the prophesied 'False Priests') are very

manipulative, motivated by ego-aims, and seeking personal gratification out

of 'helping others'.

I can best describe it as spiritual masturbation: it is a selfish act,

fruitless, and has no real aim of helping the other, but is driven by an

underlying motive of making their own life more pleasant. It is the

limitation to personal gain which makes that they do not send true love

(whole spectrum signal; 'thy will be done' stuff), but only what they

'believe to be good'. It is their bias which you see reflected, it is the

deficiency in the signal which they send, which can not be processed in the

other and thus, naturally, can not make a complete (de)compression

transformation in the 4D funnel of the phi-spiral, and rebounds back.


Again, the same process evolves as has been described above: the signal

recoiled, diffracts, and possibly affects the 'Vortex' (this human) itself.

(We ourselves are such vortices, as Lawrence Edwards showed). And the

reverberations of emotions are seen: that is what was the theme of the

discussion to which Dan reacted in the e-dialogue to which i respond.



To summarise:


Love transforms only in love; always.


It is wide band, full range, signal: 'white noise'.


Yet, if the transformation through which it passes determines how it can

travel on. Complete or not.

And it is the way in which the signal is (in)complete, which determines how

it can be processed.


If the signal is complete, it can undergo the complete compression through

the Phi-spiral; and transcend into the complementary reality at 'the end'

of the 'vortex'.

If the 'vortex' is broken, the transformation will be incomplete, and the

acceleration/compression process will break off at the edge of the rupture;

it will thereby amplify and expose the flaw itself (that is how incarnation

and diseases help heal flaws of the soul, by exposing them).

Likewise, of a signal is not one of love, it will be as deficient in some

frequencies as factory food is in nutrients; it can not be processed

completely 'in the vortex' as it lacks the inner in-formation on how to

process some steps; and it will rebound as a result.

(This is how this world reflects Karma, and gauges the difference between

what we actually do (karma) and (Dharma) the way it can be done to achieve

divinity/coherence. Residue vector calvulus, for embraided wave spectra, is

the mathematical equivalent of this.)


So, regarding the world as a training ground for souls, and the Phi-spiral

(the body of living organisms) as the acceleration transformation tool,

then any discrepancy in the transmission/reception of love will show up as

a distortion of love. (One form of which is hate).

Hurt, pain, depression, death; all diseases of all kinds can in this way be

logically understood; they all indicate at which level the 'transformation'

'goes wrong'. And disease is thus a way to detect the ways toward health;

as all distortions of love, they are indicators for what part of the

spectrum needs to be healed.



Most often, on this planet, both the signal AND the vortex are warped.

which just makes this training ground all the more interesting. As it is

the balance between the inner and the outer 'which we are here to learn'.

(Which is again just a model of how human life on this earth can be seen;

it is incomplete thus flawed; which is why the religions based on this

approach did not work; and left many dead...)


In short: it is the principle of compression which is involved. If it is

complete, love stays love.

If not, it breaks up. The signal, the receiver, the sender, the whole.

It is a way to calibrate the interface (Maya) of 'the vortex' itself. And

that vortex ... that is us.

I hope this makes clear why love sometimes seems to rebound as hate. It never does. It is the limitation in the humans which is seen. And even that is only the result of a flawed, incomplete, perspective ...

Feel well, O#o

wow otto

its nice that you have so much energy to give voice to this it makes me feel.. less alone, thank you

your thoughts need a web site however WITH good pictures, lo phi, may this vortex between us be unbroken, dan winter

Tom Whittier <>

Dear Dan,


I have been following the "Sending Love" discussions with a lot of

interest. Wouldn't the prayer studies by Dr Larry Dossey contradict

the inversion theory? Shouldn't he have found a statisically

significant number of people with worsening conditions as a result of

the "positive" (both specific and general) thoughtforms?



From: C... Subject: phase inversion, perception-without-judgment and acceptance-without-need-to change, Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:56:19 -0700 (PDT) To: dan winter <>

Sent this shortened version of your conversation to a shaman lady friend of

mine. Her response is quite fine indeed, and could be circulated to your




> All the the classical meditators KNOW that to prevent Karma, one does

> not SEND anything from oneself to affect a change, because the wave that

> comes in contact with "reality" becomes phase inverted, the

> "opposite effect"

> from the intended is received, and of course, the receipient RETALIATES.


> This is so obvious by now inventory review of all the negative actions

> occurring across the planet, the greatest damage occurring in the areas

> that have the most "love" expressed through meditation.


> The way to affect change is to be the "love" inside, and be that so

> strongly that the spiritual flow comes into the beingness of the

> meditator,

> and continues to flow inwards and inwards. If it is radiated out from

> ANYTHING it immediately gets phase inverted, violates spiritual law and

> dharma insues, making a nasty karma scar.


> Meditation for instance is fine until folks "beam the energy" out of their

> bodies from the heart center. That is where the problem occurs - innocents

> are "blasted" with that beaming and the spashback is negative. Link a

> planet up this way, or any other way where the resultant action is to

> create an effect in others by having others who are aware and

> those who are

> NOT AWARE of what is going on receive the beaming action, is to open us

> globally up for a fall. AND we are seeing that globally.


> is the geometry of "sending" love, implosive..?




ENFORCE A CHANGE!" In fact, the backwash begins EVEN BEFORE THAT with the

PERCEPTION that there is something WRONG in the first place! That initial

perception of a wrongness is what begins stirring the waters, not the

"sending." If perfect, agapic love is sent with no intention to create

anything more than THE LEVEL OF FEELING THE RECEIVER CAN ACCEPT, then there

is NO BACKWASH OF KARMA. The JUDGMENT that the other person or group is

something other than PERFECT and needs LOVE SENT to them . . . the idea that

they are not PERFECT LOVE as they are . . . THAT IS WHAT CREATES THE

BACKWASH. AND, the backwash that comes into your life IS NOT the love coming


. THE JUDGEMENT! This is how JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED works! (Especially



So, let's all go back to kindergarten and relearn the lessons of

perception-without-judgment and acceptance-without-need-to change. The

moment something someone is doing is considered uncomfortable, you are

judging. Only if you can receive or observe them and yawn over any

uncomfortable feelings are you even beginning to 'get' the idea of objective

perception. When you can receive all feeling with not even a yawn, then, and

only then, can you "send" ANYTHING (love, peace, serenity, etc.) without

some sort of backwash. (Actually, what will happen when you get to that

level is that the URGE to SEND will go away and you will instead find

yourself just LOVING, which is much more helpful.)



Warmest regards, C.....

--- It took me a long time to get to this point, Dan, since you gave us so

much to digest. I E-mailed Bob Dratch and Drunvalo last week, since their

contributions to this discussion were easier to assimilate, and I'm glad

that they are on better terms.


In response to your commentary.


1. The universe, as seen from 3-d reality, is inside out (as seen from a

higher-dimensional perspective), and this is the cause for some of the

problems with beaming into the outside world.


2. Shareability is really key, as is embedability, for any attempt to

create positive emotions for others to tap into.


3. We are always projecting something, regardless of our attempts to do

otherwise, and what we project will mirror what we feel inside.


4. All the free-will act of Sentient Beings are motivated by Love, so what

we project is always the product of love.


You can find my essay on the subject at this address...


I know that there is a lot more to be said on this subject, and I expect

to be posting an essay on point #1 soon.


I, for one, appreciate your efforts to keep us informed. I might not have

known about the dispute otherwise. Thank you.


Keep in touch!


Be Well,