from Dan Winter 11/29/99 url: ../collapse

Is the perfect phi recursive microtubule concentricity also the high frequency wave guide of perfect tantra and kundalini?

"Our dynamic duality model elucidates the quantum background of non-locality, principle of least action and Golden mean, unifies the
quantum and relativist theories. Tending of open systems to conditions of Golden mean is supposed to be a driving force of their self-organization."

From Alex Kaivarainen <h2o@karelia.ru> -reprints / links: at ../goldenphysics

Could Electrical Implosion - Harmonics of Perfect Recursion / Embedding - Multiples of PHI-Golden Ratio..

Be the Mechanism Which Allows Mind/Consciousness to Cohere the Vacuum?

(2nd order FFT - frequency signature or "septrum" reveals the perfect non-linear harmonic cascade-

Implosion? Based on Golden Ratio - in the EKG at the moment of Bliss?

other articles at ../sitemap.html

Stuart Roy Hameroff and Roger Penrose, are prime movers in the microtubules and worms within worms model of the physics of consciousness on this planet. Notice in these quotes below from them how SIMILAR in each case HOW THE WAVE COLLAPSE FUNCTION is the turning point in modeling how worms get inside worms, microtubules get self referential and self aware, and consciousness gets geometry. In other words, WE WILL CLEARLY KNOW THE NATURE OF THE GEOMETRY AND PHYSICS OF CONSCIOUSNESS JUST AS SOON AS WE KNOW HOW WAVES CAN COLLAPSE SUCCESFULLY (NON-DESTRUCTIVELY?). ..

This is a good place to meet, if you are a wave.... best way to share space.

How similar is all this to Einstein stuck on the problem of how to understand black holes bending time, BECAUSE HE COULD NOT MODEL A GEOMETRY WITHIN WHICH INFINITE COLLAPSE WAS POSSIBLE!

Yet mother nature has already simply answered their query, they just stubbornly refuse to look. (Phylotaxes). Perfect branching, and infinite compression (fractal) is solved by GOLDEN RATIO. So waves can collapse toward their own center infinitely without destruction of inertia only in heterodyning based on PHI. We find this in the emission lines of hydrogen, in the very nature of what wave geometries stabilize gravity (dodeca nesting), and in the spectra of the ekg at the moment of bliss. The only place we DO NOT FIND, GOLDEN RATIO as the predictor of the perfect way to collapse waves, IS IN THE STUBBORN REFUSAL OF PEOPLE LIKE Hameroff and Penrose to look at the solution.

Detailed pictures of the Phi Ratio model of elegant collapse, along with equations at ../predictions , G=Constant* C * Phi^log N. (Scaled from Plank length.)

This is how self awareness happens inside microtubules, which Michael Heleus tells me have already been discovered to layer their pipes in Golden Ratio multiples. This is how spark gaps in the synapse get spin dense and radiant. ../compression , & ../fire .

The question seems to be not so much whether or not Golden Ratio nesting is the solution to wave collapse, (since this is specifically self evident as Depak Chopra admitted to me), but more whether a generation of neurophysicists like Hameroff & Penrose will have to die off before we make use of the insight, to teach wave systems to becomes self aware. (feedback to optimize log phi spectra as in hearts to love...)

Dan Winter

(inset from Mountain Man:......Waves have collapsed successfully since there was
an ocean on this planet. See "The Nature of Surf"

,http://www.magna.com.au/~prfbrown/surf0.html , Best wishes, Pete Brown)

"Something that occurred to me is that sharing and co-operation are absolute
necessities/fundamental "building" blocks of life. To cut a long story short, the
point of my sharing this is thus:-

On the subject of a grand unification theory (G.U.T.)
the reason scientists cannot tie Gravity into their suppositions/mathematical
calculations is because they cannot see that it (Gravity) is the expression of
"sharing" and "co-operation" in the macro.

Do you catch my drift?

P.S. I can't wait for the paradigm shift.

Have a nice day,

Adam. bolusqwerty@yahoo.com"

from dan: interesting thought

something like how can a theoreitcally inphiknit number of
waves share inertia (phase coherence) at one point... (perfect sharing/embedding)

the 'recursive' answer (phi) seems to be related to the moment the physicist becomes aware that his awareness is made of the waves he is studying...

appreciate your note, dan winter

"Features of consciousness difficult to understand in terms of conventional neuroscience have evoked application of quantum theory, which describes the fundamental behavior of matter and energy. In this paper we propose that aspects of quantum theory (e.g. quantum coherence) and of a newly proposed physical phenomenon of quantum wave function "self-collapse" (objective reduction: OR -Penrose, 1994) are essential for consciousness, and occur in cytoskeletal microtubules and other structures within each of the brain's neurons." quoted from: Orchestrated Objective Reduction of Quantum Coherence in Brain Microtubules:The "Orch OR" Model for Consciousness .. http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/or.html (great pictures of microtubules branching...PHI?lotactically...)

And note here FRACTALITY OR PERFECT SCALEABILITY is the same as scale invariance, (../scaleinvariant a PHI solution ) which as perfect data compression, is the same issue: WHAT IS THE PERFECT WAY TO COLLAPSE WITHIN!?

"Fractal Neurodyamics and Quantum Chaos Part 1, 5 The Fractal Link between Chaos and Quantum Mechanics., 5.1 The Scale Link between Neurosystems and Cellular Dynamics. The occurrence of chaos in neurosystem dynamics suggests that the brain may also utilize the fractal aspect of chaos as an intrinsic aspect of its processing, in combination with the natural scale transformations from organism to cell to molecule. The architecture of the central nervous system includes specific linkages between the level of whole neurosystems and the single cell." from: http://www.math.auckland.ac.nz/~king/Preprints/book/paps/consc/brcons2.htm

So is Hameroff saying that CONSCIOUS DECISION MAKING IS SIMPLY TESTING FOR WHICH WAVE PATTERN SURVIVES COLLAPSE? (non destructive compression testing for the shareable):

"Three possible dinner selections (shrimp, sushi, pasta) are considered in superposition (left), and collapse via Orch OR to choice of sushi (right)." and "Within each neuronal dendrite, microtubule?associated?protein (MAP) attachments breach isolation and prevent quantum coherence; MAP attachment sites thus act as "nodes" which tune and orchestrate quantum oscillations and set possibilities and probabilities for collapse outcomes (orchestrated objective reduction: Orch OR). Gap junctions may enable quantum tunneling among dendrites in macroscopic quantum states." quoted from: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/royal.html

"The idea..is that quantum coherence can implement multiple computations simultaneously, in parallel, according to quantum linear superposition. Information is superposed and computes in the form of "qubits" in a quantum state which then is caused to "collapse" (quantum state reduction) to definite "bits," or particular results. ", quoted from: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/osaka.html - QUANTUM COMPUTING IN MICROTUBULES - AN INTRA-NEURAL CORRELATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS? , Stuart Hameroff


Ask yourself in what geometry can oscillators be superposed repeatedly recursively, if not in Phi ratio braiding. (see ../superDNA ). Again Hameroff's question has an obvious answer, he just chooses not to see.

I only send this tweak note that if we rattle enough cages, we may get a planet where enough people see in their minds, what indeed needs to happen in their hearts, we may get action... Like Hearts embedding into ONE!



The geometry of recursion specifically among waves, both positions the wave INERTIA (by implosion) which we call and define MASS... AND creates the self organization/self embedding principle among waves we call CONSCIOUSNESS. We can see now why physicists, unable to grapple with this notion that self embedding (lo-phi) IS the creation mechanic, settle for the still mirror like idea that consciousness CREATES mass. So while admitting that consciousness CREATES REALITY specifically by inducing the wave collapse, reference below (which IS PHIcycle recursion), thay cannot grok that wave geometry can be fabricated to specifically create self organizing conscious wave systems. EXAMPLE: by repairing the geomantically damaged specifically PHI dodeca long wave grid lines of EARTH her then more recurrent field effect would stabilize gravity, atmosphere retention, and the self regulation we call GAIA.

By admitting that recursion as consciousness fabricates REALITY, they in fact admit self embedding makes RE all ness. RE is Latin for THINGness, or to REcur. Thingness happens when waves become self similar inside out.

"Two senses where "reality is created" (1) whenever observer exercises his meter option ; (2) when the observer "collapses the wave function." " quoted from: http://www.kingsu.ab.ca/~brian/templeton/quantum.htm , Quantum Reality Beyond the New Physics by Nick Herbert


note to John S. who requested anonymity but demanded: "And physicists DO NOT believe thought or thought processes of any type create or cause reality. Q: Who are the scientists who think consciousness CREATES mass? NOTE: Quantum science only works in certain narrow mathmatical frameworks.... it is not and does not operate in the real world...."

I sincerely thought the Nick Herbert quote there (whom I have spoken to many times)
indicated his relativistic observer based understanding was that
"reality is created" .... (2) when the observer (BY OBSERVING?) "collapses the wave function." "

In some ways, Nick has been in it so long, that he may indeed speak for many of the new physics folks??

Indeed the same activity of focal aligning (one inside the other) of phase fronts that we call seeing, may indeed by THE SAME WAVE FUNCTION which STORED the inertia in the wave pattern we call MAKING MASS??

Subject: : Waves collapse successfully:Without Hameroff & Penrose .Tue, 30 Nov , From: "R. W. B." "Dan, I could be wrong but I thought both Penrose and Tiller have suggested that
a new kind of physics or science is needed to describe this stuff. In
particular, I thought Penrose said Quantum mechanics wasn't enough. I'm
not suggesting anyone take his word for it but he gotten good recognition for
ruling things out.

Now I don't pretend at this point to have even close to sufficient
background, but my hope is that consciousness will not reduce to
geometry, not even the kinds you are talking about. Why? Because geometry seems
so limited even assuming infinite hyperdimensional geometrys. It seems
Understanding reduces down to a description a perception, that doesn't
mean it will have much utility. This seems reminiscent of the search for quarks,
they were found but they are not the smallest, and so it goes with concepts.
What is this stuff going to be good for? Prediction?? I wouldn't want
consciousness to reduce to geometry any more than I would want my
dreams to reduce to VCR tapes. Dan, this stuff looks like the death of science, and
you know what, I would laugh, cause I don't believe in science to begin

Also what Penrose and others are talking about seems completely at odds
with what came before, those involved with what came before were not just
working with isomorphisms of what is, they were just plain wrong or projective in
the ugliest kind of way, and finding the truth or something that resembles
it shouldn't salvage the establishment, this stuff is likely to overturn the
attitudes in the materialistic mindset not codify them in comfortable

Sincerely, Randy


A:..fr Dan to RWB: The geometry of wave implosion permitted by phi
is a new physics and it is not comfortable...

and it creates an implosion of information by embedding in formed

which may enrich consciousness modeling more than thru a keyhole collapsed intentionality..

implosions geometry is radical and does not oversimplify consciousness
but gives it a wave mechanic which makes a phase map of a truly inphiknit multiply connected topology

the feeling of implosion in spine juice/kundalini is NOT a simplification..

a physics of collective mind

just my view


Subject: 'Will' of God (vs: phi compression/compassion as "ALIGN YOURSELF" into ONE), Tue, 30 Nov 1999 From: "James Barrett" <jbarrett@jps.net>, To: dan raven beth ray mary....

What do you think of this concept? This is what came last night after reading (reduce God to
a Geometry) in one of your notes sent to me. It came in dream time. James

Will of God

What does the statement align or surrender to the will of God mean?

Jesus said; "aligned with the One are the compassionate, upon them shall be compassion."

I am suggesting that the will of God is manifested as relationships to PHI.
If you align your heart and body to this relationship, which has no
destructive patterns inherent, then your consciousness rises to a level of
being one with God.

"Love is a golden mansion in which the King of Eternity homes the entire
family of creation. And at God's command, love is a mystic fire that can
melt the grossness of the cosmos into the invisible substance of eternal
Love." This from Reflections on Love, Written in 1940 by Paramahansa

He writes in Divine Romance " Just as oil is present in every part of the
olive, so love permeates every part of Creation."

So Love is in everything and is the energy or substance or God, but he
continues in the same book in the next lines, " The satisfaction of love is
not in the feeling itself, but in the joy that feeling brings. Love gives joy
We love love because it gives us such intoxicating happiness. So it is not
the ultimate; the ultimate is bliss.

God is, ever-existing, ever conscious, ever-new bliss" " from joy we
have come, in joy we live and have our being, and in that sacred joy we
will one day melt again." He continues; "All The divine emotions-love,
compassion, courage, self-sacrifice, humility ­ would be meaningless
without joy. Joy means exhilaration, an expression of the ultimate Bliss.

" Man's experience of joy originates in the brain, in the subtle center of
God (amygdala)­ consciousness that the yogis call the thousand- petal
lotus. Yet the actual feeling of this joy is experienced not in the head but in
the heart." The Divine Romance" by Paramahansa Yogananda

The early Sufi texts states, that "the Heart is the seat of God when opened,
but a tomb when closed".

So the key lies in the heart, the fourth chakra, awaiting you to find it and
then open it. But open it to what and what is the KEY?

" The fourth energy center is the Heart chakra or Anahatam, which
literally means 'unstruck or unbeaten' like the transcendental sound, which
is constant, just as the heart beats constantly. It is located in the spinal
column, directly behind the center of the chest, at the heart level. It is
connected physiologically with the heart plexus of nerves. It is depicted as
a twelve-petalled lotus, green in color with a six-pointed star and is
inscribed with the letter ya. It is associated with creative power,
unconditional love and compassion, and the ability to over come fate. In
the writings of the Siddhas, anahata is said to be where one's thoughts and
desires are forfilled. With its awakening, one becomes a master over the
situations of life. One no longer depends upon fate to determine one's
conscious will." This is from the book, Babaji and the 18 Siddha Kriya
Yoga Tradition by M. Govindan, M.A.

We have found over and over that when the heart opens to another or
feels awe the relationships of the echo's coming from the heart are is a
PHI relationship or proportion.

Phi Relationships are found not only the architecture of nature, this
includes man but in the fractal nature of atomic structure.

The more we look in to it the more we find the fractal signature of PHI
proportions in the structures of all physical and inanimate things like
crystals. The mechanics of Quantum object appears to even have this
relationship in their actions. The Geometry of why this might be so is easy
to understand for it allows for activity beyond the speed of light, and God
it if anything beyond this limitation.

It states that we are made in His image and likeness.

"In this state (bliss), all the necessities having been attained and the
ultimate aim effected, the heart becomes perfectly purified and instead of
merely reflecting the spiritual light, actively manifests the same. Man,
being thus consecrated or anointed by the Holy Spirit, becomes Christ, the
anointed Savior. Entering the kingdom of Spiritual Light, he becomes the
Son of God.

In this state man comprehends his self as a fragment of the Universal Holy
Spirit, and, abandoning the vain idea of his separate existence, unifies
himself with the Eternal spirit; that is, becomes one and the same with God
the Father.

This Unification of Self with God is Kaivalya, which is the Ultimate
Object of all created beings." From The Holy Science", by Swami Sri

Again I will allow the Master to point the way. Jesus said; "aligned with
the One (God) are the compassionate, upon them shall be compassion."

This alignment takes place in the heart, the main oscillator of the body,
which entrains the other body systems, the cells, and the DNA/RNA
matrix. When sustained this entrainment completes a physical entrainment
to the will of God. Your consciousness then is one with the All mighty
Universal Intelligence.

This process is teachable and learnable. It is the core to the wisdom of
Heart / Emotional Intelligence.

It is the learning of the feeling of what compassionate music played in and
from the heart, feels like.

Then being aware to recall that feeling at will till your ego will surrenders
and entrains to the Will of God and you are with bliss in Unity awareness.

James Barrett

Nevada City, California November 11, 1999

More on this at:


from: http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/QuanCon2.html#clifford

Dimi Chakalov said: "...

1. It is Heisenberg's uncertainty principle which Roger Penrose applied to collapse of the wave function, something like the instability and decay of a radioactive particle.

2. The picture is spacetime geometry separating from itself, and re-anealing after time T.

3. The greater the superposition, the faster the conscious event.

4. In this way, a transient superposition of slightly differing space-time geometries persists until an abrupt quantum classical reduction occurs and one or the other is chosen. Thus consciousness may involve self-perturbations of space-time geometry.

5. Because OR phenomena are fundamentally non-local, the coherent superposition phase may exhibit puzzling bidirectional time flow prior to self-collapse.

6. You need collapse. Otherwise you're forever in pre-conscious superposition. ..."

here is Stuart Hameroff's response to Peter's question on Golden Mean Ratio as the geometry of the only permissive collapse?????


Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:52:01 EDT
Reply-To: Quantum Approaches to Consciousness
Sender: Quantum Approaches to Consciousness
From: Donald Mender <Solzitsky@AOL.COM>
Subject: [q-mind] OR and cellular automata (reply to Peter Nielsen)
-Stuart Hameroff
From: Stuart Hameroff <hameroff@u.arizona.edu>
Subject: OR and cellular automata (reply to Peter Nielsen)

[Peter Nielsen - previously]
I am an electronics engineer looking for a sound theory on encoding
systems for inter-dimensional translation. For example, if it is assumed
the fourth dimension is a scalar domain, how to convey information about
3D spatiality thereupon, where, by definition, no conventional
directionality exists. Conversely, how to again isolate it for purpose
of technological OR.

One solution which has occured to me is the use of cellular automata,
with a cell structure based Platonic forms, and the rule being a Phi and
log Phi ratio progression which allows non-destructive nesting and
recovery respectively.
The existence of dimensionality would be reduced
"0" or "1", and coordinates encoded through phase relationship and
frequency division multiplexing.

Does this tie in with any observed or postulated dynamics of
microtubules? I recall Phi ratioed structures being mentioned in one of
Prof. Hameroff's papers. Perhaps each microtubule also has a slightly
different resonance, which would suit an FDM modality. Anyone have an
opinion on this?[Stuart]

Interesting question.
Thank you.

I'm not sure if the Phi and log Phi ratio are related, but the
Fibonacci series (sum of prime numbers) is prominent in microtubules. The
slightly skewed hexagonal microtubule lattice (in which cellular automata
are proposed to occur) has multiple spiral wrapping patterns which intersect
any particular protofilamentn at intervals of 3, 5, 8, 13 and 21 (and
perhaps higher)
subunit proteins (tubulins).


Roger Penrose suggested that the Fibonacci wrappings could mediate quantum
error correction codes in microtubules.


Djuro Koruga has also written about the golden mean in microtubules.
See for example his book
Fullerene C60 (History, Physics, Nanobiology, Nanotechnology)
North Holland, Amsterdam 1993


Biologically there is evidence that microtubules and microtubule-based
sense position and gravity to orient the cell. The parallel wrapped cellular
automata may be the best way to reduce 3 dimensional space to 2 dimensions
(wrapped in a spiral cylinder), just as you suggest. Microtubules connected
into networks by microtubule-associated proteins (MAPs) form particulary
interesting computational geometries.


[Peter Nielsen]
On a slightly different note, one of the problems with CA is, where is
the necessary clocking mechanism. It seems the prevalent search has been
for an external source. Is it consistent with quantum mind theory that
this corresponds to the gating speed of the microtubules? IOW,
internally determined.


We've used the Frohlich frequency of roughly 10^11/sec coherent excitations
to clock the microtubule automata. See e.g.


Rasmussen, S., Karampurwala, H., Vaidyanath, R., Jensen, K.S., and
Hameroff, S.
(1990) Computational connectionism within neurons: A model of cytoskeletal
automata subserving neural networks. Physica D 42:428-449.


[Peter Nielsen]
It might then be inferred this could be subject
to individual modification, either by conscious control or the kind
metabolic deviation accompanying certain psychological states.


Tuning and detuning.
But classical, or quantum?
and......many other questions.


Stuart Hameroff